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I am very pragmatic in this area. This whole Universe thing I think a lot of people overdo. It’s really no different than believing in a religion and praying within the context of that religion and hoping that your prayers are answered. Both rely on their really being a G-d or in the Universe truly being the concept as represented in the Law of Attraction/Secret which none of us can really nkow. I choose not to put my eggs into that basket. There are too many things that happen in life that neither religion nor The Secret can explain. And I’ve been disappointed too many times in the ability for a deity or belief like this to come through.
I’m also a guy, and I wonder if that has something to do with my different attitude.
I choose to run my life based on being a good son, being a good friend, always trying to help people, being charitable, and trying my best to be kind to others. Just my 2 cents.
LooongTimeSingle, I love your perspective. And you are absolutely right, of course. But … very unfortunately … as much as you can dig your heels in and stand by this posture, what’s “right” and just in this world often doesn’t govern the reality of people’s judgements, people’s prejudices, and people’s decisions. As someone who is single never married and who would love to be in love and have a partner to love … I have been through this dating “ritual” time and time again and given that experience, I know that the people on the “other side” who are making those judgements will dig in their heels as solidly as we do. Could you possibly meet someone (especially past 40) who will be willing to wait to build the trust and take the risk? Highly unlikely but I’m not saying it’s impossible. It’s what I am hanging my hat on, but I have to tell you … it’s like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Interesting post, Reds10. I would suggest that we (as a society) are not putting too much pressure on ourselves to “couple up” as a goal, but that we ARE putting too much pressure on ourselves within the process itself. Just recently, someone I know said that she doesn’t understand why women don’t give men 2 or even 3 dates to decide as long as both are nice people and the conversation flows … that she knows of many successful couples who have deeper and better relationships from letting things play out this way … people who may even have felt that the 1st date went just ok.
The truth is … as a society, we all have lofty expectations of how we’re “supposed to feel” after one date and generally speaking, we have a timeline of how the relationship should progress physically after date 1, date 2, date 3. That … is pressure. How can we expect to have your knees wobble after one date off the internet when you’ve never met this person before? I think we all need to be more patient and not be fixated on what may or may not happen on each date.
As for being alone, I for one believe that life was meant to be lived with a partner (that is NOT to say, btw, that we shouldn’t make being happy and comfortable with ourselves the #1 priority). If you (or anyone else) thinks they can be happy alone for the rest of their lives, all the power to you. I can assure you that you will find otherwise when you start to get older and realize that growing old without the kind of support you can only get from a partner or perhaps your children (which you obviously won’t have if you never find a partner) is daunting. I’m an only child and I’m currently taking care of a 93 y/o Mom. I ask myself all the time what I’m going to do when I need the kind of love and care that she has needed these past few years.
I’m not saying that this should be one’s only motivation in finding a partner. Just that it’s a very unpleasant byproduct of being alone. There are of course, other reasons to feel the need to be with someone. Even just the companionship and the ability to hold someone in one’s arms and the feelings one experiences when one is in love … is something that I miss when I’m not in a relationship and while I make the best of it, I’m not sure I can look at the alternative of being alone without feeling like I’m missing something and my life just isn’t complete (notice, I didn’t say that I need someone else to “complete” ME).
Just my 2 cents.
Now … if we could just figure out how to get people to be willing to do the only thing that allows more “Relationship Variance” to develop.
Alexandra, thank you for your reply. I understand. But sometimes, you have to try to fight shyness. Do you think that being outgoing and aggressive just comes naturally to all men? I was painfully shy when I was younger and I still struggle with it … but I make the effort. Sometimes you have to take baby steps to at least get a start.
I wasn’t trying to say that we men take it personally when women don’t make the effort. But very few men are going to approach a handful of women “clustered” together in a closed-in group and interrupt. A great way of handling this is to stay with your “group”, but stand in an open stance – next to one another facing people who walk in (for example) showing that you’re open to being approached. Don’t forget, no one can force you to give anyone your number or to go out with him. But it all starts with a conversation and without that, nothing can happen.
So I understand that people are shy but so are many men … it’s not easy for us either because we have to be able to face rejection over and over again.
Now I still say that you can’t be that shy that you won’t answer emails, only to stay single for many years. Those people are not putting in the effort. For us men, we have to put in a lot of effort to get a date, for women … all you have to do is to be open and willing. But yes, it’s not easy, it can be awkward, and you have to be prepared to reject someone if it doesn’t work out after a date or two or three. That’s life. No pain, no gain.
Alexandra, there is no way for me to know about YOUR particular situation without having met you. One thing people often don’t seem to realize with the internet – they come here and throw out situations and ask for advice from complete strangers. I have friends that do this all the time on FB. They ask people on their friends list most of whom they have never met what they should do in various life situations. In as much as the internet is a good thing in many ways, this is not one of them. These are often situations where it is appropriate to talk to your husband, your sister, your clergy, your therapist, etc.
With that said, when I spoke above about “making the effort”, I meant that my friends and I know of many many people who CLAIM that they want to meet someone, but who are clearly not making the effort. You see the same faces on dating sites, you see the same people at parties, etc. People that my friends and I have made the effort to be friendly towards or to date … and they are perpetually single and frankly not even open to talking in person at parties. They stand together with friends in “closed stances”, don’t make eye contact, don’t smile. They don’t respond to emails. These are reasonably attractive people who make up front judgements about other people because they simply don’t want to try and frankly just expect a knight in shining armour to come along and sweep them away. I’m sure men do it also.
It’s one thing to take yourself off dating sites and pursue hanging out with friends or other interests. But to put yourself out there and openly claim that you want to meet someone and not make the effort … is a conflict and non-sequetor.
Many couples only manage to make it work by being patient … especially as you get older because let’s face it, most of us don’t look like we did when we were younger. I can’t tell you how many dates my friends and I have been on where it gets cut off after one date and it’s very clear that the first date went ok … and remember, especially when you date off the internet or in blind date situations … that first time is really a “look/see” and doesn’t start from the same point that a first date does when you’ve already met one another.
The bottom line is that it’s just not likely to happen magically when you first meet the person or by striking paydirt online. And yes, it is not easy and it takes effort. I can’t remember the last time I knew of someone who didn’t feel like even a first date was somewhat of an effort and then deciding afterwards whether to pursue it or not for some people is downright confusing or perplexing.
So yes, if you have decided (as I almost have myself) that it may just not be meant to be, that’s fine. But if you haven’t, then there is no way that dating or finding the right person isn’t without risk, work, and effort.
Well, like I said … I find that there are people who SAY that they are happy and things aren’t so bad … and do manage to find things to fill their lives. But in reality, they are “escaping”, rationalizing, and are truly fearful of being hurt or just don’t want to put in the effort. And dating takes effort – a LOT of effort. It’s a tough line to walk and I’m not saying that this is the case for anyone who has posted here. I do know of TONS of people that it IS the case for, however.
Absolutely! You don’t want to feel so pressured that you need to be with someone that it causes you to make the wrong choice – better to be alone.
Well, Lonestar, I get that and I think I stated something similar above … that one needs to be comfortable with who they are. And certainly it’s not a good idea to seek out a partner just for the sake of having a partner … in other words if you don’t have adequate self-worth/self-esteem, having a partner won’t make you happy and seeking out a partner could get you in a relationship for the wrong reasons.
However, I’m not sure I understand what the big deal is if people don’t want to be alone or unhappy being alone and that is one of the primary motivating factors in seeking to be with a partner. I feel that life was meant to be lived with another human being. Not to get all religious here but that is supposedly why G-d gave Eve to Adam. I also feel that it’s ok to feel that you “need” to be with someone else in order to be happy. I know that goes against everything that everyone says, but that’s the way I feel and I don’t see anything wrong with it. Notice, I’m NOT saying that you should count on another person to be responsible for your happiness, your self-worth, or to “complete” you.
Funny, I have never had that situation. I am now in my 50s never having been married and never having had children … and I’ve had multiple relatives who have trusted me with theirs on multiple occasions. I’ve done things from changed diapers to taken them to soccer practice.
I think there are two things that are responsible for this: they know that I am generally a trustworthy person and they have seen how I interact with their kids and how good I am with them.
I guess it depends upon the specifics of the situation and it’s difficult to give you a recommendation based on what you’ve stated above – maybe if you could provide an example.
One must do their best to love themselves and to lead as fullfilling a life as they possibly can inside themselves and their own experiences. HOWEVER (and I know that I’m going to get a lot of flack for this), I believe that life was meant to be lived with a partner. That is NOT to say that one should REQUIRE a partner to be happy, but I honestly do believe that there is nothing wrong with feeling like one needs to have a romantic partner in their life in order for them to feel that their life is complete and there is nothing wrong with feeling that many experiences can be more joyful when you have someone to share them with.
While you can certainly make the best of it being single and there are certainly many many activities that you can engage in as a single and much happiness that you can derive, there is nothing like the feeling of holding someone that you truly love in your arms. And there are experiences and activities that you just cannot enjoy … and joys that you cannot experience … without a romantic partner. Not to mention the “pragmatic” aspect of life where you are always better off having the support of someone to go through those experiences with … a promotion, a death in the family, a sickness, etc.
I think the most difficult thing is trying to find the balance as you spend more and more time alone. Where do you draw the line between being so comfortable alone and being so jaded of the dating world … that you allow that to bias you towards not trying as hard and almost “accepting” a fate of being alone vs. not becoming too jaded and not letting it get to you and continuing to make a reasonably significant effort.
Frankly, I completely understand the need to consider onesself and their need for independence and the need to have one’s own life and not feel that they need to cave in to the “pressure” of needing to be part of a couple. But I also see sentiments out there from single people where I ask myself if they haven’t built sort of a “wall” or a stubborness or a psychological barrier that covers up a deeper fear or hangup. I see people who write on this … who provide “encouragement” to women about being single (e.g. Melanie Notkin and others) and ask myself … how many good decent guys has she turned down or not given a chance to? How open-minded is she and has she been? Is it reasonable to feel “forced” into dating someone or giving someone a chance? Of course not! Is it conceivable that someone after TRULY MAKING THE EFFORT just hasn’t met the right person? Sure!
But as I said above, there is compromise and there is the concept of trying to walk the line of not being too jaded. There ARE definitely some people out there who aren’t open-minded and who don’t give things much of a chance. Especially post-childbearing age.
I’m only saying … if you satisfy yourself that you have done what you can and you end up being single … so be it. But PLEASE … don’t let yourself become someone with a standoffish attitude and who is insistent upon perfection and who is so jaded that you enter each situation with a pre-judiced point of view about the opposite sex. Most couples who end up in lasting relationships give things a chance to grow.
Good points Alexandra. And the other problem I had with several therapists was that it is very easy to get caught up in this kind of “patient subserviant” relationship because you are the one who is vulnerable and they are the ones who are “in command” and are the “scholars” and have the experience … so to speak. That type of relationship can cause one to be more patient than you should be and itis very unmotivating to search for another one because they are so hard to find.
What you learn is that they are also imperfect, they are human beings.
The moral here is if you don’t find yourself making reasonable progress within 6 or 12 months, it’s time to move on. I stayed with therapists for years because I was told that it’s normal for deep-seated issues to take a long time to resolve. I regret having listened to them.
Mariposa, I’m glad to hear that Sara was able to step outside being a coach. I don’t know what her qualifications are or if she has any training at all, I’m merely saying that if something is a major issue it may require a more therapeutic approach. If coaching works, great. And I’m not sure all coaches would have that ability to step beyond being a coach. You have to be very careful … anyone can claim to be a coach these days and put up a shingle, you don’t have to be accredited.
I would be interested if Sara cares to post her thoughts on how to handle lack of relationship experience with a new person actually. That has been an issue for me in the past.
Funny, it wouldn’t stop me from reaching out to a woman if she listed her job as “HR”. And I can tell you from experience that in today’s world, if you look at the dating profiles of women and check the age ranges that they are seeking out, you will find more and more women who are looking for younger men, sometimes much younger men. And if you couple that with the subtle technique of lowering their “age” and leaving very old pictures in the profile, you’ll see that they are so far from being realistic that it’s not funny. Then again, in today’s liberated world, women feel that they should be able to do what men do, and honestly, they should.
I can tell you that my friends and I don’t follow these patterns. We typically don’t write to woman who don’t have much to say in their profiles no matter how good-looking they are … we always write thoughtful emails based on a woman’s profile. We actually go out of our way to choose women who are attractive/appealing but who may not be the most attractive women on the sites for good reason … those women likely are being flooded with emails. But women complain that they can’t meet any guys through online dating. What’s wrong with this picture?
I can tell you what’s wrong. These behaviors go both ways between genders. Less attractive women are just as likely NOT to respond or to play games as more attractive women. And less attractive women are just as likely to bypass a guy who has a thoughtfully written profile and sends a nice email. On top of that, one of my friends is 5’5″, I am 5’8″, and the other two are 5’9″. And on top of that, we are all average to above average looking. None of us is a 6’2″ charismatic hunk.
The message I’m trying to convey is women are just ask likely to exhibit these types of behaviors as men. If you watched from 11:00 minutes onwards in the 2nd video, you’ll see why both genders do this: they’re scared Sh_t of rejection. Otherwise, what harm does it do to view any potential interaction as “just a date” and “nothing ventured, nothing gained”. Others may be scared of committment. But in general, people are scared.
The bottom line is … if you want a guy who is willing to look past a profile of a hot woman with no substance and find you, YOU have to be willing to look through those emails/profiles to find us quality guys and you have to be willing to make some concessions (at least initially) on things like hot looks, height, etc. Love can develop to some degree over time. And don’t get me wrong, more men have to be willing to look past the superficial, look past hot women, and look for substance.
First, kudos for you for reaching out and good for you for your willingness to seek help.
Only YOU know what has or hasn’t happened in your life and only YOU may have insight into the reason for your lack of relationship history at this point. 23 isn’t very old and others are right that there are many people for whom it did eventually happen. And if it’s a minor issue where you just need some pointers or suggestions, that’s one thing.
HOWEVER, and this is a big HOWEVER … if you have ANY … I repeat ANY suspicion that it could be due to either a hangup, any kinds of fears (especially deep-seated ones), childhood experiences or the way you were raised, or any other “non-simple” issues … I would urge you to seek out a good therapist … and it takes a LOT of work to find someone that you click with. Actually, if this is the case, you are much better off seeing someone who is past this point of singledom and who has been through all the experiences of relationships and who can use those experiences to help you … but who at the same time treats people in the dating world.
I know that Sara is a wonderful person … I can tell from her readings. But coaching … is not therapy. Coaching is appropriate for people who need suggestions, who need “tweaking” in their approach, maybe someone who needs suggestions on where to go to meet people, how to behave on dates, how to dress, whether to see someone again, when to have sex, etc.
And I wouldn’t waste any time getting started because depending upon the issue, it can take a few months, a few years, or many years. I tell you this because while I was normal in every aspect of my life, I also went many years without any serious dating or relationship experience. But it wasn’t just simple adjustments that were needed – I had hangups that took me years and years to work through. And I DID start with therapy early-on. Yet still, I didn’t start dating in earnest till I was in my 30s and I’m embarrassed to say when my first relationship was. And as a result, I have completely missed out on ever being able to have a family and at this point, possibly even being married or finding someone.
The dating world is very cruel. Late bloomers (depending upon how late, of course) are looked upon in a very taboo way. I have approached divorcee after divorcee only to find that they want nothing to do with late bloomers (I have 3 single friends in their 40s/50s who have had the same issue). And there just aren’t that many single never married people left who truly want to be in a relationship.
So … if you’re certain that all you need are some adjustments and someone to talk to, Sara or a dating coach will be fine. But if you suspect any kind of emotional issue, I recommend a good therapist asap.
Good luck!
